Somebody must know this

[snousle]

What do high-end Chinese chefs do for sauces? I cannot believe they are buying Kikkoman oyster sauce or Dynasty black bean and garlic sauce. They suck. Yet I don't know of any alternatives. Do they do their own fermentation? Do they import it? Do they buy it off the secret Chinese version of Amazon that white people aren't allowed to see?

Comments

[albear-garni.livejournal.com]

I think that they do use some of these staple condiments, but you only need to go into one of the shops on Stockton or into a Ranch 99 to see just how many versions exist of each sauce (some from mainland China, some from Taiwan, some from the Phillipines, etc.

Go here for some inspiration:

http://ming.com/foodandwine/recipes/season-1/black-bean-garlic-sauce.htm
http://ming.com/foodandwine/recipes/season-1/curry-ginger-oil.htm
http://ming.com/foodandwine/recipes/season-1/soy-lime-leaf-syrup.htm
http://ming.com/foodandwine/recipes/season-1/black-pepper-garlic-sauce.htm

[bluebear2.livejournal.com]

I've seen dried black beans that must have been fermented or something as they were still a bit sticky. I assume that you use those for making your own black bean sauce.

Someone told me that black bean sauce isn't a high end restaurant thing. It's something for the cheaper restaurants.

[broduke2000.livejournal.com]

You hit a similar point with me.

I grew up with Cream Of Vegetable soup. I discovered a local Chinese restaurant that knew exactly how to make it. Unfortunately, they went out of business shortly thereafter, and I haven't had any success in finding another restaurant.

It's thick and creamy and has a certain flavor. That's all I know.

[snousle.livejournal.com]

I stick with familiar brands because after spending years exploring the universe of weird products at Ranch99 I have concluded that almost all of them are low-quality dreck. If there are gems hiding in there I have no idea what they are. Basically any pre-made sauce - I cannot think of any exceptions, in any cuisine - is going to be vastly inferior to something homemade.

I would say that whole fermented black beans would count as a natural/primary ingredient, and the links you provide do use mostly natural products. But oyster, soy, and hoisin sauces, and some ingredients like shaoxing wine, seem to fall conspicuously short of their potential because they are industrial products that suffer from cheap ingredients, rushed processes and the demands of retail distribution and shelf life. I would bet that the difference between a jarred hoisin sauce and a natural, home-made one would be as big as the difference between powdered Hollandaise and the real thing. (OK, well maybe not THAT big, but the jarred stuff seems obviously compromised.)

But unlike Western sauces, which for the most part are easy to make from primary ingredients, these Asian ingredients require special conditions and it's not clear if its even possible to make them yourself. Hence the problem.

[albear-garni.livejournal.com]

I do agree with you. But I really don't think that chefs make any of these sauces from scratch. There are definitely lots of artisanal sauces in Japan and also China/Taiwan, as evidenced from gifts brought back to me by friends. Your best bet may be to simply ask a Chinese chef what they use. I think if you were to go to a restaurant like Mission Chinese or Yank Sing, they would tell you.

[albear-garni.livejournal.com]

Tonight when I got home I remembered Barbara Tropp! She had a really good restaurant in San Francisco in the late 1980’s early 1990’s, which we ate at. She lived in China and fell in love with Chinese cooking. Sadly, she passed away in the early 90’s of breast cancer, I believe. I have a copy of her cook book which is a really good reference. I found a copy here on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/China-Moon-Cookbook-Barbara-Tropp/dp/0894807544
In the back she gives her preferences for Chinese cooking staples which she used in her restaurant - I’ll give you some here. Get the book to read why she used these in particular.
Hot bean paste and sweet bean paste – Szechewan Brand (from Taiwan)
Chinese black vinegar – she used balsamic vinegar, it was what she thought black vinegar strived to be
Black Soy Sauce – Pearl River Bridge (English reads “soy superior sauce”); distant second is Koon Chun brand
Chili oil – she made her own
Chinese Chili Sauce – Koon Yick Wah Kee brand
Chinese Rice Wine – Pagoda brand “Shao Hsing”; or a square clear glass bottle packaged by the Taiwan Liquor and Tobacco Monopoly
Hoisin – Koon Chun brand; bottled over canned preferred
Mushroom Soy Sauce – Pearl River Bridge
Oyster Sauce – Hop Sing Lang, the best and most expensive
Unseasoned Rice Vinegar – Japanese Marukan (green label) or Mitsukan
Rice Sticks – Sailing Boat
Salted Black Beans – Pearl River Bridge in a round cardboard box or (second choice) Mee Chun brand in a plastic pouch
Sesame Oil – Kadoya brand, Japanese
Soy Sauce – Pearl River Bridge “Superior Soy” or (second choice) Kikkoman. She did not use Tamari.

[equinas.livejournal.com]

There were some direct-from-china brands from that new Asian store in Seattle that Booga brought down for Thanksgiving. The sesame oil and ginger paste were especially fantastic.

[snousle.livejournal.com]

Good tips, thanks! I'd heard of Pearl River Bridge before, I will definitely check it out.