snousle: (castrocauda)
[personal profile] snousle
The subject of anger is of enduring interest. I've come to accept that I've got a lot of it and that this is not going to change. There are excellent reasons for this, which I'm not going to elaborate on right now. It's not actually a bad thing, but it is easy to destroy yourself with it. The key has been to understand that common provocations are not actually what generates anger; the source is generally something deeper and not necessarily tied to a specific thing.

Anyway, one perspective on anger that I've never encountered elsewhere is the idea that it is a tool of memory; expressions of anger are a very effective way of implanting strong ideas and associations in other people's minds. So when someone carelessly knocks over an expensive antique and you're angry at that person for breaking it, your anger is a means of ensuring that the association "expensive + broken = bad" is fixed in their mind, making it (hopefully) less likely that this will happen again.

If you're the kind of person for whom antiques are truly important, this is not a bad thing at all. The idea that anger should always be "managed" or "controlled" (which is really a euphemism for "eliminated") is, IMHO, quite wrong. People who encourage you to to suppress anger outright are trying to dis-empower you. It's a natural, genuine source of power that is there for your use, and I think it should be used (i.e. expressed), but it has some notable limitations.

It is useful to imagine anger as a squirt gun filled with ink. Use it a few times and you'll leave an enduring mark. But use it often and it will run out, so you'll be furiously pumping at the trigger while nothing comes out. Instead of leaving a mark, people will laugh at you for being an idiot.

The obvious conclusion about anger, then, is not to express it freely or stamp it out entirely, but to use it wisely. If you waste anger on foolish targets, it is no longer effective on more significant ones. What do you want people to remember about you? What principles are most important to enforce? That small number of things are what it should be used for.

Funny you mention this...

Date: 2010-01-04 05:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beartech420.livejournal.com
36 years ago I took an excellent behavioral psych course, my prof was really good and used positive reinforcements to push his students to get good grades. Once talking to him outside in a parking lot a car trying to park almost hit him. He shouted a series of insults at the driver which would have totally shamed anyone. Then as we walked away was totally calm again talking to me. I couldn't help but think was he angry or simple using negative reinforcement to improve someone's driving skills. Never forgot that...
BestRegards,
Pete

Date: 2010-01-04 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pink-halen.livejournal.com
That's an interesting insight. I, too, have lots of anger. My problem is that I seldom vent it but let it build pressure like a pressure cooker. I'll have to give your lesson about this some thought. It might be useful for me to think in these terms.

Date: 2010-01-04 06:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oscarlikesbugsy.livejournal.com
Not all anger is created equally, as you note. Accordingly, merely "expressing anger" is not always the means to extingushing it.

Of course, one does retain some 'healthy anger'. This we might call 'righteous anger'. But, that is unlike other things, e.g. "resentiment is a poison you take, while waiting for the other person to die."

Last, "use it wisely" is not fully descriptive, in the sense merely of choosing one's object/issue with wisdom. How one expresses emotion - all emotion - is a set of skills, a toolset. Like all tools, they can be well honed or not. For instance, many people who are physically violent often have very low verbal scores. They have few verbal self-defenses and much of the rest follows.

So, QOTD: Do you, i.e. anyone reading, fear yourself getting angry?

(That's a thought experiment, no answer required, here, of course...)

Date: 2010-01-05 02:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fingertrouble.livejournal.com
'righteous anger' - yup. I have fun telling Xtians and others who tell me to mind my 'karma' or not wish death on certain people, that my god or gods (if they exist, which I doubt, more metaphysical reallly) allow revenge. All of this pained suffering in silence - no.

But you don't keep that anger with you. It dissipates like static. The anger you keep inside, that's dangerous. But to try and be 'holy' or somehow prozac happy is silly. Anger needs an outlet sometimes, just best to manage it so you don't take out those you love and aim it at the people who really deserve it (bosses and workpeople for example; weird how it's the innocent partner who gets the brunt of those frustrations; it's wrong...talking helps).

But I'm quite happy with revenge if it's right or possible; but if it's long scale best go to plan B and keep yourself happy and let them eventually implode, which nasty people do eventually.

Date: 2010-01-06 12:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oscarlikesbugsy.livejournal.com
That's a bit of a sharp contrast between 'suffering in silence' and 'revenge'. Most religions have steps to trying to right wrongs - it's not all shrinking violet stuff. And, 'righteous anger' isn't everyday kind of matters, it's often keyed to key injustices, etc.

It's funny how you talk about something, then suddenly it's right in front of you. Here's a silly pic that I saw today that made me laugh:

Image

Date: 2010-01-06 03:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fingertrouble.livejournal.com
lol I like it.

I tend to use what I call my righteous anger for political things - like copyright laws, gay executions, Peter Mandelson, etc.

Also who decides what a 'key injustice' is? Some of the smallest things are sharply political, and worth getting angry about. And some will just make you unhappy and in a foul mood even if you're right. It's a judgement call really. You cannot fight every battle, nor become the monster through fighting other monsters.

Date: 2010-01-06 03:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fingertrouble.livejournal.com
And yes I know the religion comment was a harsh jump but partly for reasons of space and also IMO it's true at this point of time.

Yes historically there have been great religions calls to defend the rights of others, to protect the weak, charity etc. But I see very little sign of say, the moderate Xtians and Muslims reaching out to their extremist brethren to quell their dangers, not fight the homophobia or racism in their churches.

Even the traditional charity seems a little lacking in these 'me me me' times, where people become unpersons and disappear without a whimper. Yes some, like the churches that sent kids that were in immigrant 'camps' imprisoned for little reason presents this Xmas (and were turned away by the private security guards, really it did look like the modern version of a concentration camp). Those give me hope, but it seems a very small minority.

Date: 2010-01-05 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fingertrouble.livejournal.com
Oh and I don't fear my anger. I've had to remove myself from situations when I was about to explode (strangely people get more freaked by you doing that, my evil boss did, when you are actually doing you both a favour) but I don't fear it. I recognise the red-mist signs and just take myself out of that situation asap.

I fear it in others though; not just cos they are angry with me, but also their wellbeing and sanity if they are close...in that case I'm rarely the subject of the anger but there is something uncontrolled that scares me for various reasons.

Date: 2010-01-06 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oscarlikesbugsy.livejournal.com
I don't like to be angry. I find it very unbalancing. It's a great motivator and an energy provider, often, but it's an unstable animus. I tend not to like sheer contests of will, except in sport.

Accordingly, I could say I don't like to be angry and may fear it, yet. I don't even like to raise my voice...

Date: 2010-01-04 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hudson-phoenix9.livejournal.com
I was reading, once, and I don't remember when, that all emotions are tools of memory and learning. A severe burn from a stove will cause pain and subsequently fear of being burned again, so your careful around stoves. Your example of the vase illustrates this, too. Sex brings about joy (usually) and this would help us want to reproduce and/or bond thus making us stronger as a species. And so on.

Date: 2010-01-04 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] come-to-think.livejournal.com
For me personally, the most salient of your comments is the one you do not follow up: "The key has been to understand that common provocations are not _actually_ what generates anger; the source is generally something deeper and not necessarily tied to a specific thing." That is so obviously true of me that I cannot take my own anger seriously. I have a lot of anger *fantasies*, as one might have sexual fantasies.

As to the usefulness of anger, that surely depends, as you mention, on its not being expressed too often; but it also depends, I think, on the relation between you and the person who angers you. You have to have some power over that person -- as his parent or boss or lover, for example -- so that the anger is at least colored by a threat of punishment. If not, he may actually be gratified by the power that eliciting the emotion gives him over *you*.

Even judging from the literature rather than my own extreme case, it seems to me that anger, in civilization, between equals, is mainly a nuisance. "How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than its causes!"

Date: 2010-01-05 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] come-to-think.livejournal.com
P.S. The "something deeper" in my case is usually shame: Anger is ice for the toothache of shame. What makes me take refuge in the distraction of anger is awareness that I am too cowardly to handle conflict.

Date: 2010-01-05 01:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oscarlikesbugsy.livejournal.com
On the lighter side of the topic, do you know?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_KrSWI8F2E&feature=player_embedded

Date: 2010-01-05 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] come-to-think.livejournal.com
Surely there is enough of that kind of thing in the real world, without it getting onto YouTube? %^)

Date: 2010-01-05 01:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snousle.livejournal.com
If not, he may actually be gratified by the power that eliciting the emotion gives him over *you*.

A curious comment, because I would see it as kind of sad if anyone suffered that sort of relationship for very long. I'd be making every effort to get out of it entirely.

Date: 2010-01-05 04:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fogbear.livejournal.com
Might I suggest Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?...

Date: 2010-01-05 10:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] come-to-think.livejournal.com
By "if not", I meant in situations *other than* the (dependent) kinds of relationship I had described. I had in mind the expression of anger in casual encounters with strangers & dispensable acquaintances. In many cultures, in such situations, losing one's cool (letting someone "get one's goat" means losing face. Surely, e.g., in the video oscarlikesbugsy linked to, we are expected to see the protagonist as making a fool of herself by refusing to admit that she has made a mistake and using anger to deflect attention from that refusal.

The use of anger within relationships where one or both parties have (at least in principle) something to lose by eliciting it is a much more complicated matter, and is something I have almost no experience & very little knowledge of. In particular, between lovers a fit of anger is colored (to a greater or lesser degree) by the threat of withholding love or ending the relationship. At one extreme, the threat may be carried out; at the other, it may not be taken seriously, or even amount to an expression of confidence that the relationship is immune to such attacks. In an asymmetrical situation, such as where the boss can lose his temper as a form of punishment in that the employee is humiliated by not daring to retaliate, all manner of nasty possibilities arise, and, as you say, one should get out if one can.

Date: 2010-01-05 02:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fingertrouble.livejournal.com
Anger is an energy...anger is an energy ;-)

For me it blows out remarkably fast; I can be very angry then I just drop it. Rare I stay truly angry with anyone.

Hence I tend to avoid people I'm angry with, until I calm down. Tis safer; sometimes it's them, quite often it's me. Usually pointless...to quote another lyric, why fight the people you like?

But it does have it's uses, and anger doesn't need to be necessarily controlled but like a beast with teeth it might need to be directed. Weird how you can lash out at those who accidentally get in the way...

Date: 2010-01-05 03:56 pm (UTC)
mellowtigger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mellowtigger
Anger is a powerful motivator/memory, yes. It's a very dangerous key, though. I think it's unwise to believe that anyone can control either what gets motivated or what gets memorized. Its unpredictability is one reason for its powerful influence.

Sleeping dragons, and all that.

Date: 2010-01-05 04:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snousle.livejournal.com
The most useful aspect of this image for me is that it aligns naturally with one of my strongest motivations: frugality. If, to create another metaphor, I see anger as money, the question "do I want to spend it on this" has a decisive influence on how I relate to its target. The answer is only occasionally "yes".
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