snousle

He would have eaten them before I got a chance to take the picture!

From:

Huh, that's weird, LJ picked up the subject line from a different thread...

From:

I like the second shot, but not the plate. The plate in the third shot is better, but a little "busy" on the edges.

And in your last shot, don't call those tapas!

Chuck

From:

This exact dish is not something I would serve such an event, I was mostly experimenting with presentation for that format. But what is it that you would call tapas? AFAIK is nothing about what I put on that plate that is unavailable or atypical in traditional Spanish cuisine.

From:

You should sample the pinchos (tapas) in Spain in order to get a good idea. Actually they vary by region and the best are thought to come from Donostia (San Sebastián). What you pictured would more accurately be called merienda.

Chuck

From:

Well, there is a reason I put "tapas party" in scare quotes - I have in mind a format that I've never actually tried, and that was the first description that came to mind. I have no idea if it will actually work.

Although it is vexing that words lose their distinguishing power in this way, the word "tapas" is nonetheless well understood here and communicates a particular style of eating despite having strayed from it's meaning in Spain. I think if I were to serve actual Spanish-style tapas to typical American clients they would be rather disappointed. Some would be delighted, but most would be expecting something different.

So what do you do? You go along with the corrupted meaning, and smile gently at the clients that correct you, acknowledging and congratulating them for their superior understanding. ;-)

From:

Actually the Americans that come here to visit usually rave about the tapas they try. But then again, they were bears and may have different tastes than your clientele. It is true that you encounter more types of mariscos (seafood) and embutidos (cured meats) than are typically found in the US.

I think what used to be called "hors d'oeuvres" are the new "tapas" in the States. More marketing than actual change. The idea being to sample a number of dishes that in total constitute a meal.

The Spanish concept is to sample the tapas offered at several restaurants before supper. Think "Happy Hour" with food and friends. Many tapas restaurants also offer platos (plates) so there's no need to leave and spend your money for dinner elsewhere. Marketing to enhance revenue flow.

To be really snarky, many Italian-style restaurants in the US offer fried squid as "calamari" as an appetizer. Add a squiggle of mayonesa with garlic and presto! Now it's calamares con alioli a very traditional tapa or dish dating back to Roman times in Spain.

Chuck

From:

The Spanish concept is to sample the tapas offered at several restaurants before supper.

So it seems everyone has an opinion on what "real tapas" is. I have seen just the opposite sentiment from several sources - like here

Tapas is not a starter. If you start eating tapas, you finish eating tapas, and you don't stop until you're full.

In addition, some people think "real" tapas is specifically food served with drinks, so if you pay for it (beyond the cost of the drink) then it's not "real".

This is why I don't worry much about "authenticity" anymore!

Anyway, what I'm thinking of is a party where people pick up plates from a common table as they arrive from the kitchen, and take them back to their own tables to share with friends family-style over the course of an evening. Most dishes would consist of about 10 pieces of whatever is being served, and would come with little tongs or something to help people serve themselves. I'm not at all stuck on any particular word but it's a challenge to name such a thing.

Edited Date: 2008-11-17 06:34 pm (UTC)

From:

So it seems everyone has an opinion on what "real tapas" is. I have seen just the opposite sentiment from several sources - like here.

Curious, that source says: If you are invited to "go for tapas", you'll be visiting lots of bars and probably only taking a single tapas in each.

I would say that particular tapas bars may be noted for their specialties, like mariscos, and that's all you would try at that bar. But you know, after a couple of drinks people want to stop running around and just hang out at one place for a while.

Tapas is not a collection of small dishes brought out on a platter and eaten as a main course. No, but they often have various types lined up along the counter and you point to the ones you want. I have known a few visitors who kept eating tapas (because there were so many to try) that they were too full for dinner afterwards. And they only wanted to try just one.

Another quote from that source: Tapas is not a starter. If you start eating tapas, you finish eating tapas, and you don't stop until you're full. Well at least for bears it can be a starter. Have a few beers and free tapas at BBB and then head off for real food.

And then there was this: Anything can be tapas - paella... that would be like a bowl of steamed rice at a Dim Sum restaurant. "Ham and cheese on toast" sounds pedestrian as tapas to me.

So most tapas "places" are half bar, half restaurant. Some are more restaurant appearing, but they are more casual than typical "sit-down" restaurants. And some are clearly oriented towards tourists.

In fact, most bars here serve food of some sort. For morning it might be bocadillos or croissants to have with café con leche. Later in the day replaced by tapas and beer or wine.

So when are you going to come here and see for yourself and then draw your own conclusions rather than reading tourist-oriented material?

Chuck

From:

In addition, some people think "real" tapas is specifically food served with drinks, so if you pay for it (beyond the cost of the drink) then it's not "real".

Well, when you go to a bar or a restaurant, they sometimes offer food with drinks. If it's free, usually it's something like potato chips or peanuts. This is often referred to as "pica pica" or "para picar" (to pick at). But is not considered to be tapas. Remember that I said many bars here offer at least snacks (for sale, not free).

Several gay bars have as part of their "Happy Hour" offering, free tapas. They are not as elaborate or expensive as "real" tapas. But when you're hungry and the price is right, who's gonna complain?

Chuck

From:

theotherqpc.livejournal.com

i believe food stylists use vegetable oil, not water, to give food a juicy glisten.

From:

Yup it's oil for most things, glycerin where you cannot use oil.

For the oil use a mister, for the glycerin, a brush.

Oh also sometimes egg white but that dries ip very quickly.

From:

growler-south.livejournal.com

The food looks great- the flour on the agnolotti is sharp and fresh, the parmesan(?) is light and unwilted, and your zucchini have a great depth/range of colour and a great glisten to the skin in the last shot.

For extra gloss when we shot food we would give meat, leaves, and shiny vegetables a quick spray with aerosol canola/rapeseed oil before putting them on the plate. Cold, of course. That would probably work for pasta too, though you have to be careful not to get fingerprints in the food! Tweezers and skewers and toothpicks are your friends.

I think the patterned plates are screwing with your white balance and metering, though that's based on just two shots. Have you tried setting your white balance manually on the tablecloth before adding the plate? I'm looking mainly at how the pictures on (mostly) white plates have much better colour rendering, while the patterend plates are sorta squishing your gamut.(Not that there's anything wrong with having your gamut squished in the privacy of your own home from time to time).

Try avoiding any large areas of yellow or cream and see if that improves the rendering of reds and greens. Manually white balancing on a clean white plate should be enough, but beware of a cream tablecloth. Not a hard and fast rule, but it may help.

Speaking of the plates- I really dont think you can get away with those patterned ones. They're bold and warm and comforting and I totally want to buy them... but why am I talking about the plates? Because they're awesome. And I should really be looking at the awesome food.

A thought regarding focus. Are you manually focussing on something where the plate will be, and then leaving the camera still while you swap out the plate? That way you know the focus is right, white balance is right, and you can concentrate on trying lots of compositions with your food.

It's my opinion that large-aperture (short depth of field) photography looks odd unless you're really really close to the subject. You can blame TV's large apertures for training everyone to see things that way- we're all so used to seeing short DOF in macro images on our TVs that short DOF anywhere else just looks wrong. Its something 3D artists screw up constantly.

Last comment, regarding the last picture- I think it's the cut on the foremost piece of pork that's making it look dry. I used to cut candy bars with a single long sliding pull of a very sharp knife liberally lubricated with vegetable oil to avoid internal tearing- a similar technique should work on meat too.

Hope you found something helpful in all that ranting!
XX

From:

I think the patterned plates are screwing with your white balance and metering

That is a very good possibility. Since the light I use doesn't match the preset white balances very well I have been using "auto". However it does have a calibration mode, I just have to figure out how to use it.

The lubricated knife idea is a good one. These are the things you miss not going to cooking school...

From:

growler-south.livejournal.com

Lubricated knife food not for eating! Years of going to advertising hell job, not cookery there- making candy bar breakaways look delicious and perfect. Usually when the client didn't have the cash for a proper 3D model.

Auto white balance will fuck you up- and not in a good way! Calibration/manual mode- you usually fill the lens with a plain white item and activate calibration/manual mode, and the camera then adjusts until it's capturing white. If you calibrate/manual while looking at a coloured field, the camera will attempt to adjust until that field is captured as white- which will mess with rendering of other colours later.

Of the preset white balance modes, I used to find 'cloudy day' the best when using a combination of natural and artificial light. It knocked out the cold blue in the daylight, while not making the shadows *too* yellow.

Good luck handsome!

From:

darkphuque.livejournal.com

Food Stylists the arrange the food for a magazine photo shoot have some interesting techniques for doing the photography and, more often then not, the food isn't what it seems to be. I remember a TV program all about such things and the use of things like Vaseline and cold creams adding to, or in place of the real food was normative. I don't remember what they used for Ice Cream, but it wasn't real ice cream because the lighting would have melted it. I don't remember the source, but there was a PBS program about such things. Maybe, with some research you could get a copy of the show?

From:

Yeah, I know they cheat like hell, and for a variety of reasons I don't do that. Personally I find that practice quite distasteful!

From:

darkphuque.livejournal.com

I guess its all about the image and that is what sells. When I thought about marketing my Pastries/Cookies/ Tea Sweets, I checked out how much of the food photography was done with phony stuff and came away shocked. But I wonder... are the food shots in Food Magazine done with phony stuff? That would be criminal to know that a particular shot in Gourmet was done with nonfood products,made to look like food products.

Might it be possible to talk to a couple of Professional Chefs to get input?

Edited Date: 2008-11-17 04:19 pm (UTC)

From:

growler-south.livejournal.com

As I see it, capturing photons in a grid and converting them to digital data is cheating already. The aim of a photograph is to convey to others what you experience with your own eyes, and if the camera needs a helping hand in the form of vaseline to capture that, then it's only a little bit more cheating.

Besides, a photograph can't express the smell, feeling or taste of food, so you're perfectly justified in bumping up the beauty to compensate. ;-)

Disclaimer: For some reason Brian gets upset when I photoshop my images, so dont feel like you're the odd one out here.

From:

I feel my soul slipping away already!

From:

Check your white balance, on my monitor these have a distinct pinkish caste. But that could just be a difference of monitors.

People usually resize web images to 72 DPI.

It is very very challenging to shoot something on a circular plate, cause ideally you want the plate to be exactly symmetrical or deliberately distorted and usually the food does not cooperate with either of these. And then it is very challenging to crop a circle in a way that is pleasing. IMO your whole-square-plate images are most successful in terms of composition.

The white background isn't always the best choice - it might be to your advantage to choose a cloth that accentuates something about the food that you want to emphasize. Like let's say you want the presentation to look emotionally warm, choose a warm neutral cloth. Or if you want it to look cool and refreshing choose a cool neutral.

Yes, she's a betch, but Martha Stewart hires the best food stylists / photographers, so you might look at her site for ideas.

From:

I definitely need to calibrate the white. For now I'm going to stick with the white background. I'm also wondering if I need to start working in raw mode so as to avoid that problem entirely. Know of any free software that handles raw D70 images well?

People usually resize web images to 72 DPI.

??? I wasn't aware that my images include any resolution information at all. Can you elaborate?

I've been looking at Charlie Trotter's food photography and I see that he's almost always cropping so close that you don't even see the boundaries of the plate. Not sure I want to imitate that style but it's another way of tackling the problem.

Thanks for the pointers, they are quite useful!

From:

These are all at 300 dpi, which is probably what comes out of your camera.

Surely you know someone who has a copy of Photoshop?

From:

Is this having an effect on how you see them?

From: